Debunking the Myths of Bonsai by Will Heath

In this article Will looks at products and the myths that are associated with them. Will was a category winner in the Bonsai Vault Article Contest

Very good thought-provoking article, I enjoyed it a lot!

I was fighting against "SuperThrive" and foliar feeding in other forums but I finally gave up, you could actually demonstrate it to some people and they'd still buy the product. The answers are almost always direct quotations from the product manufacturer webpage as if it was the gospel.

By the way, all the links in the "Further Readings" are broken and point to http://build.tripod.lycos.com/trellix/s ... der/_blank .

Michael

Glad you enjoyed it Mike. Will did a well written article no matter what your point of view.

Sorry about the links, my fault, they have all been fixed. The exception being the informal gardener which appears to be a non existent address.

Mike
The thing with superthrive is B1 is not the only active ingredient.We should not have so much faith in Wills nose.
A look at the lable of the gallon size will tell you it has another active ingredient called Auxin wich is a growth hormone.
There is plenty of documented proof of the ability of Auxin to increase root growth in stressed trees.
I am unsure if you have jioned in any of the debates I have had on this subject but in the last one Even Will conceded he would have to look into this issue more.

Only the most pigheaded would deny the research that shows the intresting aspects of auxin and it's influence when added to trees. Most research only shows results when the trees are lacking in auxin wich can be for any number of reasons.

The problem is that it is linked to Superthrive and B1. I will state as clear as possible that I will not and do not buy superthrive or advocate B1. There are much better and cheaper ways to use auxin such as seaweed extract or products that are often called plant starter that have only the active ingredient Auxin.
Look for these active ingredients
Synthetic auxin analogs include 1-naphthaleneacetic acid (NAA), 2,4-dichlorophenoxyacetic acid (2,4-D), and others.

Brett,

actually my fight against SuperThrive has more to do with repeatable experiments done by other persons. I have yet to see a serious experiment proving a single claim of the product. There is one thread on that subject on BonsaiTalk, there are similar threads on other forums I read (in French and in German), I even seem to recall reading a discussion somewhere where Brent chimed in on the subject and not in defense of SuperThrive.

If you carefully read the literature on the effects of auxin on trees, you'll notice that the dosage has to be precise for the species otherwise you get no effect (not enough) or the opposite effect (too much) when taking cuttings. You'll also read that the auxin balance in the sap and local tissues is what triggers the sealing off of leaves in fall on trees. If you want to increase the tissue growth or root growth in stressed trees, you could have a look at glucose at % in water which will actually promote growth indirectly or erythritol which will promote growth directly.

I have to go now, I'll continute when I come back

Michael

I forgot to add the percentages: 0.1% for glucose and 0.2% for erythritol.

Michael

Yes the amount of Auxin is important just as it is when taking cuttings.
The instructions are on the bottle and just like fertiliser make sure you follow them.
We may be able to improve effectivness with species specific application but that will only come once we get over the fact that that it does actually work. This will take time but we should not stick our head in the sand and say it is all just too hard.
I have had a long and in depth discussion on this subject with Brent on BN and he conceded that there was some use for auxin, specificly he suggested a very old collected tree that had very fine growth rings that in words to the effect needed a kick start of auxin hormone after collecting to get the juices flowing.
I believe there are many uses for it ranging from poor condition seedlings turned up in late mail. Trees collected out of season for whatever reason such as construction that unearths trees in summer. The hard to collect or rootprune species of Australia and the world. The very real possibility that auxin can be a great help in even general root prune and repotting by reduced shoot growth in favour of root growth.

There is still alot to learn on this subject but it is a clear fact that there are serious experiments that do back some the cliams of superthrive by way of the additive Auxin. The experimint you refer to on BT I believe was done with unstressed trees. This I gather is the main reason for it's failure. This experiment tested the advertised claims of Superthrive not the documented attributes of added auxin.

The thing with superthrive is B1 is not the only active ingredient.We should not have so much faith in Wills nose.

Brett, first off its not Will's nose in question but Lauren Bonar Swezey, Sue McDavid, and Linda Chalker-Scott which is where Will pulled his information from for his article.

Secondly Will isn't debunking Superthrive per say as much as the use of B1...not the use of Auxins

I know you look for any open door to argue your favorite topic Auxins but this article is about B1. Perhaps you could write for the members an article on Auxins, with your own experiment using Superthrive, then we'd have a real shooting match.

Brett,

Label me stupid if you want, but if I was trying to reach an exact concentration of auxin for a tree I'd rather use auxin not pre-diluted in undisclosed ingredients in unknown quantities and with instructions as vague as "3 fl oz per 100 gallons is optimal for most cases". I'd rather use a known "pure" auxin at a pre-established concentration. If I was to use ST, I'd make sure I get it straight from the manufaturer as it has been shown that some sellers peddle ST diluted in water as the real thing.

By the way, if you try the glucose mix you will need to increase the nitrogen feeding as the reaction will somewhat limit its intake. The erythritol mix doesn't block any intake as far as I know, but there has been no long term study yet... it is used in the bio-fuel industry to speed up the increase of biomass.

To come back to the subject of the article... even with all the existing literature debunking B1, I foresee that it will still be recommended in forums and books in a few decades.

Michael

Tom You should know by now I have learnt to pick my words very carefully when it comes to Auxin.

Brett, first off its not Will's nose in question but Lauren Bonar Swezey, Sue McDavid, and Linda Chalker-Scott which is where Will pulled his information from for his article.

In fact I am not questioning Lauren Bonar Swezey, Sue McDavid, and Linda Chalker-Scott. But I am questioning the ability of Wills nose to tell us what the ingredients of Superthrive are.
Specificly this quote from the article.

Miracle potions pop up from time to time shouting out the wonders that can be accomplished with just a few small drops of their B-1 enriched formula. Super-Thrive is the latest of these that I know of and one small whiff is enough to tell you that its main ingredient is indeed B-1.

Though to be fair to Will I doubt anyones nose can pick up the odor of auxin in Superthrive. As far as I know it is odorless. We would have to go to the label to find it listed as the other main ingredient.

By Tom
Secondly Will isn't debunking Superthrive per say as much as the use of B1...not the use of Auxins

I know you look for any open door to argue your favorite topic Auxins but this article is about B1.

Yes the main argument is about B-1 but Will does give the example of Superthrive. So it must be mentioned that Superthrive also has the main ingredient of Auxin and although there is no proof that B-1 can

reducing transplant shock, stimulating root development, increasing crop yields, and other such claims that sound too good to be true

These claims by Superthrive can be backed by scientific research into it's other main ingredient Auxin.
Superthrive does not claim that B-1 does these things only that Superthrive does. It is Will that makes the assumption that Superthrive is claiming B-1 is the magic ingredient.

I see this as being the heart of the issue. Take this statment from Wills Article.

The myth of B-1 spreads like the plague; it seems there is always someone crediting B-1 with reducing transplant shock, stimulating root development, increasing crop yields, and other such claims that sound too good to be true, and are.

There are many people reaping the rewards of using Auxin but they are trying to give the credit to B-1. This is why the myth of B-1 will not die and Auxin copes all the flac with it.

By Tom
Perhaps you could write for the members an article on Auxins, with your own experiment using Superthrive, then we'd have a real shooting match.

Just waiting for the next Article competition
But I do not wish to get into the discussion of Auxins too much here. Surfice to say that I must diferenciate what it is we are debunking.