Some of you know that last June I got a ponderosa pine in a workshop with Andy Smith at MABA2008. The tree was the best I've ever had, and a gift from my wife, to boot.

On the advice of many who grow ponderosas in climates wetter than Andy's, I repotted it in late winter (March 9,) mainly to get it out of Andy's potting mix, which is designed for his climate. I did use Andy's recommended recipe -- 50% Turface, 40% grit, and 10% organics -- but sifted everything so that all the particles in the mix were between 3mm and 4.5mm in size.

I tried to be very gentle with the roots at repotting: no hose, just repeated dunking and some use of a medium plastic brush. I took off about 15% of the root mass, mainly to restrain runaways.

This spring all seemed to be well until about the end of April. Then I began to see dying needles in clusters, here and there; mainly toward the ends of branches. I was tempted to conduct a Full Bore Linear Panic, but settled for a loud "Yowch!" and some frenzied research. I also posted pics and info on BonsaiChat and BonsaiNut, and sent an email to Andy Smith.

Andy's opinion, from what I described, was that I was seeing some sort of insect damage -- some borer, probably. I got an insecticide formulated specifically for borers, and dosed the tree. I also gave it a dose of fungicide, just in case.

The consensus on the bonsai fora was summed up by Walter Pall: I was getting in too much of a flap, the tree was just weak, I should give it plenty of TLC and otherwise leave it alone.

In spite of the TLC, the tree continued to decline, and the dead foliage spread. By now only a couple of tufts of needles show any green at all, twigs are stiff and brittle -- it's only a matter of time. The pictures show the tree on May 1st of this year, and then as it looked this afternoon.

I want to try again with ponderosas, but before I do, I want to figure out what killed this one! I also want to have some answers when my wife returns from a summer as a camp nurse in rural Washington state; as I said, this tree was a gift from her. Any feedback, comments, or ideas are more than welcome.

1. I never did find any evidence of insects: no frass, no webbing, no galleries, no little bodies. Nor do I have any specific evidence of fungus (that I know how to recognize.)

2. When the first hard freeze came, the tree was still in Andy's original mix. When that froze, a ridge of soil heaved up a good inch along one side of the pot. Concerned about broken roots, I moved the tree into a cold basement room where the temperature stayed a little above freezing all winter (except perhaps for the nite when it got down to -19 F outside.) A week or two later I tried moving it back outside -- ponderosas are supposed to be as hardy as musk-oxen -- but the same thing happened. I moved the tree back into the basement for the rest of the winter.

3. That basement room was cold enough to keep the trees in it dormant, but there was very little light -- just one small window. I have read opinions that evergreens keep growing, very slowly, thruout the winter and therefore need some light. Any opinions on that?

Can anyone offer any insights? Thanks in advance.

Before I offer my opinion please answer a couple of questions.

Did you spray at all with a fungicide (Like with liquid copper) in late March early April?

The needles that are brown in picture 5/1/09 were they cut needles?

With a grow box as big as the one you have...why were the roots cut?

What were the extremes (Hot vs Cold) between outside and inside when you shuttled your tree back and forth?

Have you dug a shallow grave in the back yard so your prepared when your wife gets home from summer camp.

Hi, Tom,

No, there was no fungicide applied in March or early April; one application around May 1st, active ingredient chlorothalonil.

No needles were cut.

The temperature in that basement room stayed pretty consistently in the 30's and low 40's F. I don't remember the outside temperatures when I moved it in or out. But given what's typical here and where it was situated outside, I'm sure that once frozen, it would have stayed frozen if I hadn't moved it. (Curiosity: can you suggest what might have been in Andy's mix that swelled so much when frozen?)

In retrospect, I see I didn't need to do any root trimming at all. Some of the small roots were very long, not surprising on a collected tree. The size of the box was pretty much determined by the lumber I had to work with. The floor of the box, BTW, is 1/8-inch-mesh hardware cloth, for the best possible drainage.

I'm thinking maybe a firepit in the back yard. We both want to be cremated after we die.

I am by no means an expert, but I will offer you my opinion. I suspect this tree was weak to begin with, and had too many insults heaped upon it in too short a time period. My limited experience with collected ponderosas says that you can be quite aggressive with them as far as pruning both the canopy and the roots if the tree is healthy and has grown well in the last year. However, take a weak tree, maybe a collected tree that wasn't well established to pot culture, and subject it to root pruning, wiring, abrupt changes in light/humidity/temps while dormant...this tree is instantlyt more stressed, prone to infection, and even further decline. I'm sorry about your tree, but I suspect some of the things mentioned above may have contributed to its demise.

Dave

Dave, you may well be right. I assumed the tree was healthy and ready for repotting: Andy had collected it in summer of '06, and it had almost 2 years to get used to a pot before I received it at the workshop. And I inferred that Andy was reasonably sure the workshop trees had adapted and were ready for work, from one of his comments.

(I said that carefully. I inferred; Andy didn't specifically say it.)

The instructions I recieved from Andy were do nothing for 3 years...I tend to listen when it is someone who collects and grows them... This is my first year with a Ponderosa and it was also a gift from hubby...I have done the same with the Yews I got from Tom, I did nothing to them till he said they are ready.
Irene

irene_b wrote:The instructions I received from Andy were do nothing for 3 years...I tend to listen when it is someone who collects and grows them...
Irene

I certainly listen also, Irene. No argument there. Andy didn't say anything about waiting to do anything to the tree. Of that I'm quite sure, because I was listening

treebeard55 wrote:

irene_b wrote:The instructions I received from Andy were do nothing for 3 years...I tend to listen when it is someone who collects and grows them...
Irene

I certainly listen also, Irene. No argument there. Andy didn't say anything about waiting to do anything to the tree. Of that I'm quite sure, because I was listening

No doubt you were!
Perhaps he needs to know about this tree and what happened to it?
Irene

I sent Andy an email two days ago, describing what had happened. So far I haven't heard back from him. (I think he's pretty busy getting ready for the Midwest Bonsai Show in Chicago in August.)

Hi Beard,
I am sorry to see that you have lost this tree. I have never heard Andy tell anyone to wait three years to work on a tree, he really pushes to get folks to work on them so that people will see how nice they are as bonsai. Irene being in Texas may have earned her that special set of instructions, I know he sold Ponderosas to Vito Megna down by Austin, and they seemed to struggle there.

Most folks who live at high altitude (denver, etc) or cold climates (red Wing, Minnesota) tend to bury their Ponderosas in a spot that is protected from the wind, and dig them in the spring. I move most of mine into a a poly house and keep them well watered- they start to push in March, most years. I have never lost a Ponderosa after repotting it nor have I ever lost one from Andy though he is frequently maligned for selling the same year he collects (I have had 25 or 30 from Andy).

The fact that new growth died first is troubling, I will need to think about that one for a while, I have seen that but usually in girdled or badly cooked trees, not in mid cycle. Again, sorry for your loss.

John