Colin covers many of the inorganic substrates we use in bonsai as well as micorrhizae, but he fails to mention that Micorrhizae grows much slower in a sterile inorganic mix and in many cases, not at all, at least compared to saprophytic mushrooms.

I would have liked to see more discussion on mycelia or endomycorrhizal myceliam, both beneficial to the plant, but both hardly understood by bonsaists in general. I would have also liked to have seen some discussion as to store bought spores and the fact that mycorrhizal mushrooms native to a region are more likely adapt to our artificial environments than exotic species commonly sold.

Colin is very knowledgeable in the field of mycology and I would like to see more of his knowledge in this area, as it relates to bonsai soil, in the future.




Will

Colin is very knowledgeable in the field of mycology and I would like to see more of his knowledge in this area, as it relates to bonsai soil, in the future.

Your wish is not far off Will. I believe the next release of articles will address this from Colin

What is the best size for crushed lava?

bonsapien wrote:What is the best size for crushed lava?

That is dependant on the size of the tree/container. For large shoini and up to medium sized bonsai 1/8 inch works, use smaller for smaller trees (for my mame, I use fines) and use larger particles for larger trees.


Will

Will Heath wrote:Colin covers many of the inorganic substrates we use in bonsai as well as micorrhizae, but he fails to mention that Micorrhizae grows much slower in a sterile inorganic mix and in many cases, not at all, at least compared to saprophytic mushrooms.

I would have liked to see more discussion on mycelia or endomycorrhizal myceliam, both beneficial to the plant, but both hardly understood by bonsaists in general. I would have also liked to have seen some discussion as to store bought spores and the fact that mycorrhizal mushrooms native to a region are more likely adapt to our artificial environments than exotic species commonly sold.

Colin is very knowledgeable in the field of mycology and I would like to see more of his knowledge in this area, as it relates to bonsai soil, in the future.

Will

Not sure what you are basing your statement on wrt micorrhizae growing not at all or slower in an inorganic mix. With a proper mix, micorrhizae colonize the pot in no time, without inoculation of any kind except keeping just a bit to mix into the new potting soil.

Chris

Chris, what do mycorrhizal mushrooms feed on?

Probably an opportune time to refer your interest to the Mycorrhizae thread by Colin Lewis. Great read I think you will agree.



Ash

Will Heath wrote:Chris, what do mycorrhizal mushrooms feed on?

Perhaps I misunderstood your use of the word, "sterile." Do you mean sterilized soil with no nutrient value whatever nor any added, or did you use the word in a more general sense?

Mycorrhizae feed on the nutrients from the roots themselves. Did you mean sterile soil without a plant in it?

Either way, I'm still unsure of your point. Please spell it out as I have almost no knowledge of mycology.

Chris Johnston wrote:Mycorrhizae feed on the nutrients from the roots themselves.

Actually this is not completely true and avoids my actual question which was, "what do mycorrhizal mushrooms feed on?"

There are plenty of references out there on this subject for you to read, but here is something for you to consider...

Long before I even knew what a bonsai was, I was keenly interested in Mycology, this led to joining a few mushroom clubs and meeting with many experts in the field. This passion later led to learning how to cultivate mushrooms, most recently in accent pots to be used as accents for bonsai. A process I have detailed in an article or two and the results of which led to a photo essay of such at AoB.

The knowledge gained from actually cultivating mushrooms in bonsai containers instead of just hoping for some to develop, led me to realize some important considerations when cultivating, namely that with the exception of Parasitic mushrooms, decaying organic matter is the primary food source, the very stuff that is absent in a non-organic mix.

The mycelia of these mycorrhizal mushrooms must already be present in the soil in order to invade the interior root cells of the tree (they are called endomycorrhizal when they do so). Then both organisms benefit from this co-association. The mycelium then increases the plant's absorption of nutrients. It also spreads outward beyond the roots mass and can bring in nutrients from further outward It is less known that plants with mycorrhizal can also resist diseases better than those without such fungus.

Back to the question.... these endomycorrhizal mycelium don't magically form in the roots, it starts with mycorrhizal mushrooms (which such edibles as the Truffle are) or more accurately, mycelia of mycorrhizal mushrooms, which starts with spores being introduced into the soil, either by air, on purpose, or through old soil and fungus left on roots when re-potting. Then the mycelium grows if the environment is right, it may even fruit or push forth mushrooms, it can do both and never infect the roots. But the point is in order to survive it needs nutrients, and most need decaying organic matter. Coupled with a complex needs, association with roots and surrounding soil, there is as yet, no guaranteed success method, besides being sure to leave some on the tree when re-potting, and even this can fail, as the Truffle growers have found with their oak trees.

Now it is possible for those using organic fertilizers, or for enough rotting roots, or old soil to be in the pot that the mycelium can grow, but chances are better and growth is faster with organics.


Hence my statement, base on my experience and personal research and experimentation.




Will

Will Heath wrote:

Chris Johnston wrote:Mycorrhizae feed on the nutrients from the roots themselves.

Actually this is not completely true and avoids my actual question which was, "what do mycorrhizal mushrooms feed on?"

There are plenty of references out there on this subject for you to read, but here is something for you to consider...

Long before I even knew what a bonsai was, I was keenly interested in Mycology, this led to joining a few mushroom clubs and meeting with many experts in the field. This passion later led to learning how to cultivate mushrooms, most recently in accent pots to be used as accents for bonsai. A process I have detailed in an article or two and the results of which led to a photo essay of such at AoB.

The knowledge gained from actually cultivating mushrooms in bonsai containers instead of just hoping for some to develop, led me to realize some important considerations when cultivating, namely that with the exception of Parasitic mushrooms, decaying organic matter is the primary food source, the very stuff that is absent in a non-organic mix.

The mycelia of these mycorrhizal mushrooms must already be present in the soil in order to invade the interior root cells of the tree (they are called endomycorrhizal when they do so). Then both organisms benefit from this co-association. The mycelium then increases the plant's absorption of nutrients. It also spreads outward beyond the roots mass and can bring in nutrients from further outward It is less known that plants with mycorrhizal can also resist diseases better than those without such fungus.

Back to the question.... these endomycorrhizal mycelium don't magically form in the roots, it starts with mycorrhizal mushrooms (which such edibles as the Truffle are) or more accurately, mycelia of mycorrhizal mushrooms, which starts with spores being introduced into the soil, either by air, on purpose, or through old soil and fungus left on roots when re-potting. Then the mycelium grows if the environment is right, it may even fruit or push forth mushrooms, it can do both and never infect the roots. But the point is in order to survive it needs nutrients, and most need decaying organic matter. Coupled with a complex needs, association with roots and surrounding soil, there is as yet, no guaranteed success method, besides being sure to leave some on the tree when re-potting, and even this can fail, as the Truffle growers have found with their oak trees.

Now it is possible for those using organic fertilizers, or for enough rotting roots, or old soil to be in the pot that the mycelium can grow, but chances are better and growth is faster with organics.


Hence my statement, base on my experience and personal research and experimentation.




Will

After looking up saprophytic, thank you, it seemed there was a difference in these fungi, where saprophytes feed on decaying plant matter and mycorrhizae have a symbiotic relationship with the living roots, providing better access to oxygen, nutrients, and h2o in exchange for its own nutrients from the photosynthesis of the host plant.

Please realize that my understanding is based on the articles in question. What have I missed?

Of course sterile soil won't grow mushrooms. But inorganic soil with organic fertlizer promotes mycorrhizal growth. This seems to fit with what Colin was saying about the pot environment being less than ideal for the tree itself.